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Newbie to the Imp
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Topic: Newbie to the Imp (Read 1148 times)
BAC5.2
I-O Newbie
Reputation: 0
Posts: 6
Newbie to the Imp
«
on:
Aug 25, 2009 »
Hey guys,
I'm just getting into Paintball, but my endless need to tinker has overcome my sensibilities.
I have an older Impulse (non-vision) with a Shocktech Supafly bolt, Shocktech heavy hammer, EVIL LPR, Trinity Feedneck, Freak Barrel kit, and a PE Modified Mag trigger.
I want to refine the trigger/grip assembly, but that's now what my questions are about.
Here are my questions:
1) I just ordered a WAS board from PBNation. The previous owner wasn't sure what version it was. Is there a way to tell? How do I update it without buying the link cable?
2) I'm a little nervous about my LPR setup. The guys at the field recommended it to help improve air efficiency. My imp (before the LPR) was EATING air like nobodies business. I had to fill up after ~600 rounds on a 72/3k tank. They suggested an LPR would help a lot. Is ONLY swapping in the Evil LPR assembly going to help? Is it safe to just swap out the LPR?
3) How do I tune the gun? You know my basic stats, so how do I best tune it? I don't have an LP pressure gauge, but it does seem like I get a good bit of FBDO now that the LPR is on. I know I need to increase dwell, but I don't know how to do that or what it means.
4) What is the Impulse limited to ROF wise? Like, in ramping mode on the WAS board, how fast can I really expect the IMP to fire? I've heard that it is mechanically limited to ~21bps, but I don't know why.
5) I haven't swapped on the Freak barrels yet (haven't arrived), but with the stock Progressive barrel, the gun seems really inconsistent shot-to-shot in terms of accuracy. On two trigger pulls, the paint will go drastically different directions. I'm shooting RPS Nightmare or DXS Blaze (I prefer the blaze. The RPS doesn't seem to work very well in the woods, where I spend most of my time). Is there a reason besides the stock barrel?
6) Are there any other mods you guys could suggest to help improve air efficiency and consistency shot-to-shot? What about weight saving mods? This gun seems pretty heavy.
7) Are there any other "must do" mods you'd recommend? What will I gain from those?
I know it's a lot of questions, but I really appreciate any help I can get! This sport is awesome, and for some reason I really like the IMP!
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mlchael4
I-O Full Member
Reputation: 3
Posts: 126
So long Smart Parts...
Re: Newbie to the Imp
«
Reply #1 on:
Aug 25, 2009 »
1. You should be able to tell if you have the original software or one of the newer flashes. First I would recommend downloading the user manual from the manuals section on this site. Then check to see if you have PSP or NXL modes on the board by scrolling through firing modes as described in the user manual. The original software will not have these firing modes...only semi-auto.
2. I would definitely recommend an LPR. It will help your air efficiency. There are plenty of threads around to help walk you through setting up the LPR.
3. Again, there are many threads that will walk you through tuning your gun. There are rough starting points for inlet pressure, bolt pressure & dwell...then it's just a matter of logging shots and tuning to your liking. Increasing the dwell is lengthening the amount of time the valve stays open..thus the amount of air that is used to fire a round. Again..adjusting the dwell can be found in the user manual (located in the manual section of this site).
4. ROF is dependant am many variables. Internals cycle rate, limits of the board, hopper feed rate, etc. The WAS board is capably of a high ROF..but will be limited to the feed rate of your loader.
As a side note: firing fast is good...but accuracy and reliability are also very important factors. (i.e. rarely chopping any paint)
5. Check your barrel to paint match. If the bore size isn't close enough to the size of the round that can cause inaccurate shot groupings. Also need to look at you fluctuation in velocity from shot to shot. Spend some time on the chrono and log the FPS to see what kind of consistency you're getting. This will also make a huge difference in accuracy.
6. Swapping out the internals can help reduce the reciprocating mass, which should help it cycle faster and with less kick. Internals can also help with efficiency. Are you running compressed air?
Do you have the original IMP (i.e. the "brick")? That body is significantly heavier than some of the other styles available. Lighter bolt and pin are also options for dropping some weight.
7. "Must do mods"...? Well, I personally would recommend cleaning and lubing the gun very well. Sometime cleaning and lubing everything can make a world of difference. If you’re looking for upgrades take a look at New Designz website. They give a pretty good explanation of the benefits of each part.
Wheew!
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Mike (aka Eggs)
Lights Out
I-O Owner
I-O Hero Member
Reputation: 28
Posts: 907
Re: Newbie to the Imp
«
Reply #2 on:
Aug 25, 2009 »
nice work Michael - also - if you DO NOT have the new software for the WAS board a user on this forum (RB211) has it. If you send your board to him he will gladly flash it I am sure. He's cool like that
i'd recommend taking things one step at a time - don't go out an buy a ton of upgrades just yet. Put the LPR on and get the freak barrel setup - see if that helps with accuracy and efficiency and then go from there!
good luck!
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Lights Out, Camera, Action...
BAC5.2
I-O Newbie
Reputation: 0
Posts: 6
Re: Newbie to the Imp
«
Reply #3 on:
Aug 25, 2009 »
Thanks for the help guys!
I already did the bolt and the heavy hammer. That seemed to help performance quite a bit (less kick, more air efficiency (lower pressure for same FPS), and faster firing). I did the trigger, just because I didn't like the stock trigger.
I'll set up the Freak and see how that works before doing the board and drilling for eyes.
I DO have the stock body, but I was planning on sticking it on my mill and cutting out the back (more like a Strange body) to at least remove SOME weight.
As for ROF max, I have a Pinokio which seems to feed pretty quickly. It's at least quick enough to keep up with my full-auto Spyder Xtra.
How do I improve consistency in FPS?
I AM using compressed air. A 72/3000 steel tank. It's a heavy heavy heavy tank. I want to get something like a 72 or 68 4500psi, but I don't want to spend that much right now.
You guys are awesome!
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Lights Out
I-O Owner
I-O Hero Member
Reputation: 28
Posts: 907
Re: Newbie to the Imp
«
Reply #4 on:
Aug 25, 2009 »
Quote from: BAC5.2 on Aug 25, 2009
How do I improve consistency in FPS?
what reg are you using?
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Lights Out, Camera, Action...
J. Thompson #5150
I-O Full Member
Reputation: 2
Posts: 79
The 280-Pound Gorilla
Re: Newbie to the Imp
«
Reply #5 on:
Aug 25, 2009 »
Velocity consistency is a delicate balancing act between dwell, input pressure, and LPR pressure. I did some tuning with my setup over the weekend and found that I'm actually more consistent with higher input pressure, higher LPR pressure, and lower dwell. I was at 150psi HPR, 100psi on the LPR, and roughly 8 or 9ms, and getting +/- 7-9fps. I went up to 180psi HPR, 120psi LPR, and 6.5ms dwell, and now I'm at +/- 5. Strangely enough, there's really no difference in felt recoil between the two, and I've noticed very little difference in efficiency.
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Black Impulse Vision: HSW V1 I-Frame, Hybrid grips, WAS board, NDZ eye cover, Max-Flo HPR, Evil LPR, Shocktech bolt, drilled and polished Evil valve, ultralight valve spring, NDZ ram housing, NDZ Slik-Shot ram shaft, NDZ mid-weight hammer, SP Q-Lock lo-rise feedneck, Freak barrel kit, CP on/off
BAC5.2
I-O Newbie
Reputation: 0
Posts: 6
Re: Newbie to the Imp
«
Reply #6 on:
Aug 25, 2009 »
I'm using a MaxFlo Vertical regulator.
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Lights Out
I-O Owner
I-O Hero Member
Reputation: 28
Posts: 907
Re: Newbie to the Imp
«
Reply #7 on:
Aug 25, 2009 »
Here are a few options...
Clean the regulator and replace o-rings as needed
Increase dwell
Clean the soleniod
Make sure your valve spring (if you have one) is in good condition
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RB211
I-O Full Member
Reputation: 5
Posts: 77
Re: Newbie to the Imp
«
Reply #8 on:
Aug 25, 2009 »
1. Get the WAS manual and read it well. Go into programming mode and pull the trigger 6 times. If the LED isn't alternating orange/green, you have an older board that needs to be flashed to the 2.4 software. I can flash it if you need it.
2. LPR's aren't that bad to set up - but as stated, you will need to find the "balance" between LPR, HPR, and dwell. As every Imp is different tuning wise, you will have to experiment. Don't expect your shot count to drastically go up - If you want more shots, go up to a 4500psi tank. 3000psi tanks just don't hold as much air.
3. You are going to get FSDO until you tune the LPR - regardless of what your dwell is. Increase the pressure on the LPR before you go jacking up your dwell. 7.5ms is a good place to start, increase your LPR until the gun fires consistantly. Once again - the WAS manual is your friend.
4. ROF? That depends on the board you are using. The WAS is capped at 30, but you will never make it that far. 25-26bps is the best I have ever seen. Why you say? The Imp is pneumatically limited to that range. In other words, some of the internal air passages are too restrictive to be able to handle anything higher. Can this be remedied? I don't know. Widening the air passages going to the solenoid might be able to be done, using larger air fittings and hose between the LPR and solenoid air tube may be possible, but no one has done this to my knowledge - probably due to the possible consequence of screwing the gun up. I haven't picked up a junk body yet to screw around with. I might......
5. Shooting oversize / undersize paint through a fixed bore barrel will mess with accuracy. However, if you are expecting to put ball on top of ball at 50yds, you are dreaming. Get a decent barrel, match your paint, and hope for the best.
6. Mods - Since you are using an Evil LPR, you really need to find an Evil valve. Evil mods were meant for high pressure use. For example: Mixing a Evil LPR with a NDZ RIP valve will increase the aggravation factor in tuning the gun. The RIP was designed for pressures of 160 and less, the Evil Lpr was designed for pressures higher than that. Mix finding the correct dwell to that and you will have your hands full. Weight - Sorry bud, but your stuck with it. It's an Impulse. Get rid of the aluminum tank and swithch to a CF tank - that will save you a pretty good chunk. 72/3000's weigh a ton.
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BAC5.2
I-O Newbie
Reputation: 0
Posts: 6
Re: Newbie to the Imp
«
Reply #9 on:
Aug 25, 2009 »
Thanks for the help!
So I need to get an Evil Valve? Hmm... I'll keep an eye out for one! Sounds like I should have just gone with an NDZ LPR/RIP Valve... Maybe if I come across one for cheap, I'll go that route.
I'll do some reading and see what I can get. I've got a spare bag of paint (Nightmare) that I'll probably reserve for chrono tuning the next time I go to the field. I'll read up and be prepared to do some tweaking!
I'm sure you are right about the tank making up most of the weight. I was thinking about getting a 68/4.5k tank, but I just don't want to spend that right now.
I probably will tear down this gun over the winter, strip it down completely, toss the body on the mill and machine out the back (Strange style). I'll also take a look at the internals, and see if there isn't any room to grow.
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rao
I-O Sr. Member
Reputation: 3
Posts: 157
Re: Newbie to the Imp
«
Reply #10 on:
Aug 25, 2009 »
I am running evil internals and yes they run higher. I am at 200Psi on HP reg and about 110 or so on the LPR. I like how the gun feels all personal preference, ebay has some valves for 25 bucks shipped other than that good luck they are almost extinct.
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BAC5.2
I-O Newbie
Reputation: 0
Posts: 6
Re: Newbie to the Imp
«
Reply #11 on:
Aug 27, 2009 »
I installed my WAS board, and I'm not sure what's wrong.
I don't seem to have all of the features (no firing mode), though everything else lines up right with the manual.
Need a flash?
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Lights Out
I-O Owner
I-O Hero Member
Reputation: 28
Posts: 907
Re: Newbie to the Imp
«
Reply #12 on:
Aug 27, 2009 »
sounds like it...
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RB211
I-O Full Member
Reputation: 5
Posts: 77
Re: Newbie to the Imp
«
Reply #13 on:
Aug 27, 2009 »
PM replied to.
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BAC5.2
I-O Newbie
Reputation: 0
Posts: 6
Re: Newbie to the Imp
«
Reply #14 on:
Aug 27, 2009 »
you guys are awesome!
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